Rick Butts Show - Latest Comments in 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Chuck Bartok — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 18:34:43 -0000

Thank you again Rick for bringing a smile to face.
This Internet Thing intrigues me.
Especially from a Marketers viewpoint.

People are seeking information.

For a multitude of reasons.

And thanks to The Power of this medium, it
is available for FREE in almost all situations. One must be diligent, as we were in the past, and seek the Information, spend Time & Energy instead of Massive Capital.

Now I understand that you can BUY your way into Success, there are example of that all over the net...

But thanks to people like yourself and others the "average Joe and Jane" can learn HOW TO BUILD successful businesses through this Medium.

The new name "Social Networking" is what we have been practicing for 50 years

I still favor Off-line Businesses, much more lucrative currently, and the ability to Rifle Focus the prospects is easier. Not a lot of wannabes.

My off-line consulting grows from Realistic Clients who know what they have to do to get on top and stay there.

I really appreciate your Candor and talent.
Hope to meet up some day

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

ohwillieJokes — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:58:52 -0000

nice review boss..

thanks for warning. i wan to buy it before, but not anymore.

ohwillieJokess last blog post..If you love someone

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Lee Duncan — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:02:51 -0000

Rick,

You have written precisely what I thought. I unsubscribed from 3-4 lists as a direct result of big-launch whoring - Mike Filsaime was one of these lists.

I watched John Reese's videos about TS2 and it looks a good product, although not something I want right now. The hyperbole and bullsh^t that it was wrapped in by "the 12 whores" just took the biscuit & I decided to tune them out.

I think such a big part of social networking is trust, and they blew it.

Thanks for an enlightened post.

Lee

Lee Duncans last blog post..Business Success & The Milkman…

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Nicole of JustAskNicole.com — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 06:24:36 -0000

LMAO @ "bottom bitch"... great analogy! And Frank Kern's comment about being a slut... HI-LAR-I-OUS! Personally, I think a lot of the activities surrounding a typical "launch" are just pure overkill. The true value (not price) of the product gets cheapened by the "free bonus" wars. If I really want a product, I buy it directly from creator. And then I usually end up unsubscribing from all of those mailing lists that say basically the same thing.

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Peter Koning — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:25:28 -0000

Part of the problem is including affiliates and "jv partners" in a launch.

I often advise new online businesses NOT to launch an affiliate program when they are just starting out - for five reasons:
http://www.affiliate-softwa...

But now that I read my original blog post I realize that I've assumed that IM launches are different. Yes they're different ... they're different in the sense that they're getting out of hand.

I think I'll rewrite my post to say that even in the IM world you shouldn't launch with masses of affiliates, for the same reasons you wouldn't start an affiliate program when launching in any other niche.

Give good value, get happy customers referring you more, figure out how to optimize your conversion, then start buying traffic ... and maybe then think about starting an aff. program.

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Earl Jones — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 05:37:36 -0000

It'll be great if we can get the affiliate marketers to refund us the postage, when we sent back the course materials, if the main product is good, but the bonuses are crap.

It'll be best if we can buy the main product again from another affiliate whose bonuses potentially live up to their claims.

That way we won't be locked into some worthless stupiac bonuses.

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Mark Ress — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 04:55:25 -0000

Hello Rick and all who are following this post especially Deb who seems to have taken Rick's post WAY too personal. I am with Dr. Dana Myatt on this one. John has done very very well for himself and to think that Rick can hurt his earnings or anyone else's for that matter is off base to me. WAY OFF BASE!

If you are a good marketer then you CAN sell period! That is the bottom line. You can't let one man's opinion of what you're doing or not doing stop you. There are always going to be haters and naysayers but to say that Rick hurt John's sales is a weak a-- cop out in my humble opinion. I mean some will, some won't, so what next!!

When someone says to me that I can't do this or can't do that it just makes me more determined to prove them wrong. John's first TS was good enough that it's credibility alone is closing sales for John. I know I REALLY liked it and like John. As a matter of fact I am one of these guys who was waiting for all the bonuses to come out before I decided to buy. Rick's post is certainly not going to stop me. No offense Rick. ;)

A very good friend of mines once said "You're not a real marketer if you can't stand on your own two feet. If all you can do is ask others to mail to their lists for you then that isn't marketing because anyone can do that." Now we all KNOW John Reese does not NEED people to mail for him. He CAN obviously stand on his OWN two feet but there are alot of folks out there who can't. So what they NEED to do is LEARN HOW TO MARKET BETTER. If Affiliate Marketers out there are going to allow what Rick says and think "victimize" them then they need to get out of the game. You have to be able to bring it or just don't get involved. I can't concern myself with what others say. I just hone my skills more and use what others say as fuel to succeed.

John Reese is considered a legend by alot of folks in this industry and his reputation and credibility alone probably sold the copies of TS 2.0 that DID sell. Yeah some Affiliate marketers threw in their bonuses to make more sales for John and themselves but it's not like John would've starved if they hadn't. I am sure John is doing quite well with this launch.

You have to build a relationship with your list. You have to have built an affinity with your list and that is what makes or breaks the deal. Not one man's opinion which Rick IS entitled to just like you are Deb but I think you misread Rick's post and intention in the post.

There are too many folks out there who DO pimp out their lists for a commission without really giving a damn about people's success. WHERE is the follow up? Where is their intent to make sure the customers that buy through their links understand the material THEY are endorsing. Those that just come out to make a quick buck are the folks you should be attacking Deb. I mean isn't this still America that we live in? Don't we have freedom of speech here? Last I checked we did.

I don't know ONE IM'er or Affiliate Marketer that AFTER he or she endorses a product as an affiliate and makes that nice affiliate commission takes it upon THEMSELVES to put on a free teleseminar or webinar making sure that folks consume the material and understand it. I've never known or heard that happen. There is no "after you buy through my link" support or follow up. They just leave buyers on their own. I am referring to the affiliates and not the owner of the product. John has offered to do alot for the buyers on this TS 2.0 but I am referring to affiliates in general. They just figure it is the author or owner of the original product's responsibility but it would be nice once in a while to see affiliates follow up and make sure their subscribers/buyers are getting all they can out of the product. I may be wrong and if I am I apologize but have never heard of such a thing. Affiliates move on after promoting a product. I mean they deliver their bonuses and then you are on your own.

I don't know you Deb and you don't know me but I know Rick well enough to say that I seriously do not think his intent was to kill John's sales. I think he was just pointing out some things that were maybe bothering him and a lot of folks will admit that they DO get tired of receiving tons of emails on the same product launch. I think it is healthy to opt out of IM'ers lists who are not contributing value to their subscribers. If the ONLY time you hear from a marketer is when there is a big launch then unsubscribe I say. I know alot of marketers who DON'T take the time to give a sh-- about their subscribers. All they care about is their commissions. They do not educate, help or freely give to their lists. They use the word sheeple in private conversations but would never say it to peoples faces. Who is stepping up for the buyers of the products? Where is their voice when they buy products BECAUSE an affiliate is pushing pushing pushing it down their throats and they never can implement it. It just collects dust on their hard drives. Who feels bad for them?

Are all affiliate marketers "bad" or "selfish" of course not! I am just saying to look around and see how many of them really do follow up to insure the success of their buyers?

Either way I believe we are all entitled to our opinions and if a person does not like the programming then they can just change the channel. It is as simple as that as I see it.

Thanks for reading.

p.s.
For all I know maybe I misunderstood everyone who's posted comments on this post including you Deb but does that make me a bad guy? Nah just misunderstood like Rick I guess.

God bless you and yours

p.s.s
It is not my intention to disrespect Deb, John, Rick or anyone else for that matter so I hope this comment does not get misread and start another fire. ;)

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

rickbutts — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 03:20:43 -0000

Hey Andrew!

Your post is very well written - just like your show at http://HelpMyBusiness.com

You manage to get said in a few words what is really clear and true about how both sides of the story are true.

While you CAN unsubscribe - we WANT great content and to be treated with respect.

That is why I wrote I am Joe's Emai List.

Thanks for your support Andrew,

Rick

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Andrew Lock — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:46:04 -0000

The number of comments proves this is a hot topic that MANY people feel concerned about.

It's not about tearing down because options and solutions have already been presented by many of the commenters.

This thread is also not about John Reese, and it's certainly not an attack on him. His product undoubtedly has value to many, that's not in dispute.

John is merely the latest in a long line of marketers to use a promotional method that a lot of people (both customers and marketers) are concerned about.

The crux of the matter as I see it, is best presented as a question:

Should internet marketing related products be launched with hype, by affiliates and JV partners who use unscrupulous tactics, bombarding their lists, and competing against other promoters by adding 'bribes', OFTEN without having even seen the actual product they're promoting?

Of course, customers DO have a choice, they CAN unsubscribe from a list, BUT customers can also be manipulated. After all, we are in a world of expert marketers who can make plenty of people believe that their product is the magic pill that'll solve all their problems and make them lots of money.

It's been my observation that a LOT of customers are starting to rebel. They're starting to realize that they've spent lots of money without any results. They're starting to realize that there really are few genuine 'secrets'. They're starting to realize that they need to find a mentor who provides help and value CONSISTENTLY, not just right before a launch with the sole purpose of whipping people up into a frenzy of excitement, only for them to be abandoned later, until the next launch...

Andrew Locks last blog post..Episode #13 - Cellphone Woes, Back End Sales, How to Choose a Reliable Web Host, and a Marketing Lesson from Zappos.com

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Earl Jones — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:33:21 -0000

Those who said there are no secrets are Clintonian liars.

They have all the secrets they want to hide.

Yet they propose a ridiculous notion like:

"There's No Secrets"

Yeah right, sell that to school kids!

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Robert — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 14:50:34 -0000

The secret is to be able to UNDERSTAND the secret.

If you don't know something, it is a secret to you.

If someone can TEACH you something, in a way that you can understand it, embrace it, and run with it - then it is worth the cost to learn said secret.

Example Topic: How to do searches on the Internet.

Google and Yahoo have "Help" areas that show you how to do online searches. No secrets there, right?

Um, then why do so many people stink at it?

Note: I have worked with doctors, lawyers and Indian chiefs, who had no clue on how to use the search engines. And I mean the MAJORITY of people, from all walks of life, I have personally worked with have no clue.

If you (who are reading this comment now) are really good using the search engines then you are potentially a nerd, or have been online long enough and made efforts to figure it out. You are part of a minority.

In one of my niches, I have taught people how to use the search engines to become online research experts. I taught them the "secrets" of this topic.

Yes, in spite of all the Helps from Google, etc., and other online resources, my down-to-earth teaching on the topic opened a whole new world to them. I literally helped change their online lives. I know this because they told me that I did with glowing testimonials and reviews.

They were thrilled. The secret to them, was understood.

With online marketing, like so many other topics, there is information overload and confusion. Who is right, who is wrong?

John Reese did two things for me in the past years:

- He opened a whole new world about Internet marketing to me.

- He taught me in a way that I could understand.

One of the big factors to me with John is that he has tested so many things and actually been in the trenches doing it - and succeeding.

I believe there is no greater calling that that of a teacher.

So, teach me, Rick. There are plenty of things out there that are still secrets to me.

Use your powers for good. Build and do not tear down.

;-) Robert

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Rosalind Gardner — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:42:16 -0000

Rick,

Love you.. Love John. Solid information and insight all around.

In this case, I believe Dr. Dana Myatt summed up our roles and responsibilities as affiliate marketers brilliantly. (Dr. Dana, you can write for me anytime!)

However, how people react to canned emails from those affiliates who can't be bothered to make the time or effort to inform their subscribers about the value (or lack thereof) of a product, yet tantalize with 3 million bucks worth of rehashed crap that no one will ever use, is entirely up to them.

If they want to spend their way into the poorhouse on the basis of ridiculous hopes and worthless bonuses (because they're not on your list or mine), that's their business and folly.

We can't control the actions of others... and it's doubtful that the world's oldest profession - or its manifestation within the affiliate marketing industry - will end anytime soon.

So, all any of us can do is our best - and hope that the bulk of subscribers on our lists are reasonable, responsible adults.

Cheers,
Ros

Rosalind Gardners last blog post..John Drops the Hammer on Affiliates Who use Misleading Advertising

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Lane Lester — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:07:31 -0000

I found this post through Lynn Terry's blog and have found the whole conversation interesting. I think Cassie is the only one who reported the frustrations of failure after following some guru's sure-fire recipe for success. I'm one of the mostly-silent horde of people who've invested hundreds of dollars and yes, hundreds of hours working one formula or another to make only a pittance.

When the emphasis shifted to social marketing spam as the way to get traffic, I bailed out of the whole IM scene. But now that I've had time to fail at an offline business, I'm back again to see if there's anything I can do in good conscience, I'm going to follow some of the links in the original post and the comments to get a flavor of what's going on.

However, since I absolutely detest video as a way to learn something, at least I won't be tempted to buy (and perhaps won't benefit from) TS2.

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Lynn Terry — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:09:25 -0000

Thank you Cassie :)

Regarding John's integrity, and his stance with his affiliates, I've published his latest email that went out to TS affiliates on Friday night. You'll find it here: http://www.clicknewz.com/16...

I have some confessions to make. And I received your email, Rick - I'll post both (confessions & response) at my blog before the days end.

Great discussion here. I am a buyer, a product developer, and an affiliate marketer - giving me a broad perspective of this issue as a whole - and I am walking away from this thread (having read every single word) with much to think about.

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

rickbutts — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:24:12 -0000

Thanks Dana -

Very well said.

You have captured my intentions and message here.

It's hard to ignore how the marketplace (people who are on the receiving end of these emails) are feeling and reacting to this slam-launch-fest.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Rick

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

rickbutts — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:21:07 -0000

Deb,

I just re-read your comments and wanted to add.

1 - I don't think for a second that I kept one single copy of John's course from being purchased by someone who "really needed it."

2 - Poetic justice is sweet? (This caps the "story" you invented where I fade to cyber dust while John Reese prevails timelessly - rising above my yapping at his heels like a small angry little dog. I guess you ARE the Story Lady because this whole thing is a wild fabrication based on your conclusions that just aren't true.)

3 - I like John Reese and as far as I know - even though he didn't invite me to trip the light fantastic to Europe - we are friends.

4 - Even John had to put out a **WARNING** to "some people" who were promoting his course too aggressively.

5 - "Rick you are like a little kid bad mouthing" Huh? Have you ever read commentary? Do you not see how burned out the market is from these heavy handed "everybody all mail NOW!" launches?

6 - "But moaning and groaning HERE is less likely to change anything long-term" - uh, isn't that exactly what you are doing?

You are welcome to return here - to this desert wasteland blog - and apologize.

I'm all for discussion, just as long as the facts emerge.

Thanks all,
Rick

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Dr. Dana Myatt — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:14:29 -0000

Deb, I think you're missing the point...

Maybe I'm just interpreting Rick differently than you are, but it looks to me like you've missed the real
point(s) he was trying to make, to wit:

1.) If you ARE an affiliate marketer and believe you have a valuable product, for cryin' out loud could you please write your own sales letter (with "reasons why" I should buy this and who it is really for), instead of spamming me with the cookie-cutter sales letter supplied by the seller?

And while you're at it, tell me if you've actually used this product or have only read the sales page, as I have.
That's being honest. It's also being a good affiliate marketer instead of a spammer.

2.) If you are an affiliate marketer (and I understand you're trying to sell me stuff in your newsletters), you'll make a lot more money AND secure my trust if you aren't pitching absolutely every launch/JV product that comes down the pike (again, all with the same sales letter).

I'd like to hear "I used this product and feel that it isn't worth the $gazillion price tage for most people" OR "Truth is, I haven't used this service, but I'm going on the reputation of the seller." Or how about a flat-out "I don't think this ebook is worth the $297 pricetag. You'll find similar information for a lot less money at (fill in the blank)"

In other words, give me some REAL reviews, insights and information, not just a bunch of spammed sales letters. I'll trust you dearly, and spend money with you over and over. But steer me wrong on even one lousy product (especially one where I can't get my refund), and you've lost a customer.

I agree with you (and Rick has said this before). If you're getting too much of the same junk, that little "unsubscribe" feature works really well. I've peeled my IM newsletters down to a handful, and I'm getting better information in far less time.

Rick hasn't "single-handedly set back affiliate marketing to the dark ages." Geez, now he's going to have a HUGE head thinking he's got that much power! ;-)

He's simply called on folks to be good --- not whorish --- affiliate marketers. Why would anyone have a problem with that?

The Truth can really bite some times, can't it?

P.S. I didn't "get" that Rick was "dissing" John Reese and his new program. Did I miss something?

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

rickbutts — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:55:00 -0000

Wow Deb,

What a bitter rant.

What's unfortunate is that you totally missed the point of the POST. (not to be confused with the comments)

And, like a small percentage of the readers, you turned it into some kind of negative review about John or his product, which it totally is not.

I could detail this - but it is kind of like explaining a joke to someone who failed to get it on the telling.

I'd heard you were a great sounding board and compass. I'd hoped that would be true and am really disappointed to see you choose to swoop in late and hack at this discussion with such cutting remarks.

I'll be the first to admit I've whored out my list from time to time in the past. How do you think I got the perspective to write this? It takes one to know one!

Finally, the people who took the discussion off in their own direction - just like you did - are making comments - not to be confused with my post.

It is an error reason to combine them - and then slam me as if I wrote them all.

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

The Story Ideas Virtuoso — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 02:57:40 -0000

I hear all the frustration and have had my share of it. But a few things are bothering me about this discussion, and I am glad to see that some thoughtful and insightful comments have been posted here that shine like polished golden nuggets among the dross.

1)
If you're getting multiple offers from lots of affiliates for a big promotion, then you're on too many lists. You chose to subscribe and have had the option to unsubscribe since you signed up. That part is under your control, and no amount of complaining about how many emails you're getting about TS 2.0 will change anything until you take action.

2)
What do hucksters, hypesters and schlock products have to do with John Reese and TS 2.0? If you're upset with his affiliates, TAKE ACTION and tell him. Better still, tell THEM.

But moaning and groaning HERE is less likely to change anything long-term. John's integrity and the quality of his products are above reproach. To lump him together with any Tom, Dick and Jane who are promoting every product down the pike with tantalizing bonuses, etc. is grossly unfair. I would buy TS 2.0 in a heartbeat, given the funds or credit, neither of which I have.

3)
Who among the spleen-venters here is an affiliate marketer? Or who is or has been an aspiring affiliate marketer? If you're in either of these categories, you're a hypocrite calling affiliate marketers whores.

Affiliate marketing is the backbone of the internet. Getting a commission for making a sale is a time-honored business practice.

And if you're on that many internet marketers' lists, then you must be planning to make money online. Therefore, if you could, you'd choose to make boatloads of money. So let's be clear here. You're studying to be a marketer. Or maybe you already are. Then are you planning to give away all YOUR products for free? Do you NOT plan to make a profit?

If you DO anticipate earning a living wage, then stop criticizing people who are implementing strategies that WORK and "go, thou, and do likewise."

But here's the problem. Rick, with his pot-stirring controversial post has single-handedly set back affiliate marketing to the dark ages.

Good, legitimate, responsible marketers have lost thousands of dollars and stand to lose even more in the future because of this controversy and resulting perception that if you promote someone else's product you're a blood-sucking, money-grubbing, street-walking prostitute.

Here's what Rick had to say in his own words in this post at http://rickbutts.com/288/wh...

"For the last 2 years I've survived financially from affiliate marketing and reviewing products, while being infinitely frustrated with the state of Internet marketing as is well documented here.

So by not really being in "the game" (aggressively squeezing names and mailing for the big launches) I've really not prospered anywhere near what I could have - and that is my own fault."

You are, Rick, by your own definition, an affiliate whore, according to this confession above.

So instead of "being in the game," as you said, you chose to stir up this controversy, having all these other people who aren't in the game themselves apparently (because if they were, they'd be out there making money and not here) and are jealous and frustrated, so they tell you "You're the man." I'm not going to do that.

I think what you have done is smeared good people in your quest to be in the spotlight. I hope it's worth it to you to know that many people who could have benefited from John's product will never buy it because of you -- AND YOU HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN IT OR REVIEWED IT, yet you declared it would be outdated by Christmas. Considering John is offering lifetime updates, that means TS 3.0, TS 4.0, etc. will be FREE. So it will NEVER be outdated. Plus he and his staff will participate with customers -- assuming you haven't driven them all off -- in a mastermind group.

And I hope all this attention focusing on you, Rick, is worth it in that you have stolen income, which you yourself COVET, from others whose livelihood is promoting quality products as affiliates. I personally know good people who have lost thousands of dollars because of this controversy you stirred up.

You're like a little kid who sees someone else succeeding, and so you start bad-mouthing him/her, making claims, stirring the pot, and getting all the attention onto yourself. It's a childish, selfish tactic and I'm appalled that you have stooped to so low a level and yet dare to drag every affiliate marketer through the mud by calling them whores.

And BTW, it's not that you used the word "whore," but that you are name calling with it, labeling people as such, most of whom you don't even know.

If you put as much creativity into your business as you do into engendering controversy, you would have made that million dollars online several times over.

Fortunately, such attention as you have garnered here is fleeting.

There's only so much tweaking you can do to this thread until it dies a natural death. But the interesting thing is, the furor will die down and John Reese will still be selling his TS 2.0. There's no time limit. There's no "I'm selling only XX copies" limitation. He's got the track record and the longevity.

Poetic justice is sweet.

Deb Gallardo

The Story Ideas Virtuosos last blog post..Story Ideas - Don’t Throw Them Away

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Lorraine Grula — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:58:31 -0000

OMG, reciprocal twitterpating in broad daylight!

Have you boys no shame?

Input on the subject of, "Well Ma'am, did you even read the frigging eBook?" as a response to the debate of WHOSE FAULT IS IT ANYWAY? between gurus and their lists debated herewith.

I have found the sum total of everything one needs to operate a profitable business on the Internet to be more than has ever been encompassed in one product. Or I should say, any one product that I am aware of. I am certainly not familiar with every product.

HOWEVER, that's not a critiscm, because I think the reality is that running a PROFITABLE BUSINESS on the Internet is more complicated than most people care to admit, especially when they are writing sales letters.

It's not that I haven't done anything. I'm a nerd. I LIKE to read. I read a little of everybody and got confused as heck. I tried a little of everything.

I've had a total of about 15 active websites up of various styles. (Some adsense sites, some mini sites, some authority sites) and for half a dozen reasons, they've all been financial flops. But I keep trying. I keep learning. You know that damn turtle ended up winning the race.

Maybe the trouble is I am just a moron who can't do anything right?

Yeah, sometimes I can be a real lame brain, but overall, no, I was always the one throwing the curve off in school.

Depending on what individual talents and experiences a person brings to their effort of Internet Moguldom, there's a lot to learn and information becomes obsolete rapidly.

So it is not that I truly feel like any particular Internet marketer pushes crap and doesn't give a pootie about us struggling wanna-bes out here, but I absolutely believe that often the reality is glossed over in favor of marketing hype.

I mean, what kind of conversion is this copy likely to get:

"Exhaust, Frustrate and Bankrupt Yourself Learning the Ninety Gagillion Things You Need To Know to Succeed Online .

Same reason they don't sell diet books called "How to Eat Yucky Vegetables and Exercise Your Fat Ass Off."

So we're all still fat.

ALSO, I do have to say that the ability to teach so that others fully comprehend is actually a fairly rare gift. That's my nice way of saying that I have seen some mighty poor junk passed off as awesome content worth at least $97.
I definitely feel that some of our internet marketing guru friends let their egos get the best of them as they review the effectiveness of their own work.

Don't we all?

Did anybody read this far?

I'll shut up now.

Luv,
L.

Lorraine Grulas last blog post..Revver.Com: A Video Sharing Site That Shares the Profits Too.

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Harris Fellman — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:51:42 -0000

I'm already following you ... ya little twhore. ;-)

Harris Fellmans last blog post..harrisfellman: @johnreese - way to go, John - saw your email re: terminating affiliates w misleading ads (I call it the "John Reese Slap" <G>) pz

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

rickbutts — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:12:24 -0000

Harris Fellman!

I want everyone to know that Harris has been kind enough to help me personally via Skype and telephone and email - to get through a very difficult time as I was losing and eventually lost my father to cancer.

You know how hard it is to be creative and productive when you are emotionally a wreck?

Still, you try - and I know that Harris put up with a lot of my hand wringing about "what to do with my career and life" and gave me MANY great ideas and resources, some of which I am implementing only now.

What you said here Harris - and I say your name here instead of screaming it out in gay bars, (LOL), was dead on - right on - and true.

When we discussed the ethical implications of selling products that teach people how to make money online - vs - what they do with them later ie: if they ever actually implement, we agreed this is totally NOT the fault of the marketer.

I'm pretty sure that somewhere in here I have said on video and in print that nearly ALL Internet marketing products work, it is just up to us to implement.

It would be a mistake for me to lay full blame at the feet of marketers for creating lots of new stuff to buy - when in the end, IMHBAO - in my humble but accurate opinion - it is the responsibility of each of us to get our own sh*t together and implement.

We are only "victims" if we choose to let ourselves believe that.

But, as others have commented here - this market is wickedly deadly at making so many things appear to be easy, quick, and simple, (even if they include a caveat about requiring work.)

Thanks Harris for your thoughtful comments here.

I'm going to go follow you on Twitter. You are one of the most hilarious and creative guys I've ever met - if you'll follow me back?

http://twitter.com/harrisfe...

http://twitter.com/Rick_Butts

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Ian Chapman — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 18:11:02 -0000

Hi Rick,
Thanks for stopping by and reading my Blog Post, I think it presents a valuable lesson that many can learn from and shows how social media is changing the way launches are perceived and that old school tactics are leaving many people with a bad taste in the mouth

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Harris Fellman — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:50:59 -0000

A long winded comment...

First, RE: Traffic Secrets 2
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TS2 is more than just SocialMedia - there's a lot of really good, up to date ideas in there; Reese is only charging $400; not $2k as the Guru-trend was flying - I think it's a *very* fair price; And here's the kicker -- you get LIFETIME UPDATES. And he didn't have a JV Contest either (as another reader commented).

So, Rick Butts (whom I think Kicks Butt and you know I love you) - John Reese may just be smarter than you thought. ;-)

And seriously, I think it's irresponsible of you to not do just a little due diligence before putting that out there (you *do* have newbies reading your posts -- see "Ben" above).

Secondly, Whores vs Pimps
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And JP - I dunno - who says "Whores" are victims. I think that's baloney. As a potential list-whore myself -- I know what I'm doing and why. And I say 'potential' mostly b/c I don't think I've compromised my principles.

Lemme tell you something though, Rick. (and just b/c I use your name here doesn't mean I'm angry -- I know it reads that way, but I'm actually not).

Here's the deal... Doing something "extraordinary" is *REQUIRED* now during a launch. Firstly, some of these products are only available for a day or two (granted, made-up scarcity -- but it's still there) ...

If you don't do a bonus, you're dead in the water.

Case in point -- I promoted TS2 (yes, I read over the transcripts of the product first) -- I just sent 2 emails, and only made a handful of sales. I know for a *fact* that if I would've done a bonus, a teleseminar, a webinar, a live Q&A, a review ... just one or any combination of those things ... I would have gotten four or five times the results.

Why didn't I?

Not because I felt like any of that would be 'compromising my principles' ... More because I was lazy (or maybe busy) and a little tired of having to come up with bonuses all the time. So, actually, I was compromising my principles by *NOT* giving more.

Bonuses work especially well during launches because the market has learned to go look for 'em now. (HINT: If you're doing any affiliate marketing -- bonuses also work ANY TIME.)

Thirdly, I scratch my ass, not my balls
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Lorraine - I think many of the 'internet millionaires scratching their balls' do care. I've put Rick's feet to the fire on this before and even he agrees. But this really is a two way street. I whole heartedly believe that most of the stuff out there actually does WORK. But what happens is someone buys it, lets it sit on the shelf, buys the next thing, repeat.

I remember talking to a woman at a WIMME event in San Francisco... she said she was frustrated b/c she hasn't made $1 yet and she's spent over $6,000 on information products.

I said "did you take action on any of it"?

"YES!" was her response -- "I just said -- I bought $6000 worth of info products".

I've run into many people with this same mentality. So, it really is a two way street. I think the 'list whore road' is certainly getting traffic jammed. I'm not defending that here. Just want there to be some understanding that this goes both ways.

I had someone come to a retreat at my house (I hope he doesn't see this, bless his soul) -- he was 10's of thousands in debt and somehow put the money together to get to my house...

He had no technical skills -- couldn't put up a website to save his life. And didn't have the money to do so. (We offered to put one up for him at no charge...) But one of the other speakers pointed out to me behind closed doors - - - "hey, he had money to get here, money to buy other info products, but no money to get a web site set up" -- no money to set up his business!)

Maybe nobody's teaching "priorities" or "action oriented success", I don't know. But I run into this mentality alot. So, I dunno - I'll stand by my 'internet millionaire' friends because I know many of them personally -- and many of them DO indeed care. And yes, they're in business to make money -- why not sell affiliate products from the other people they know?

Harris Fellman tries to turn in his high heels
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Anyway, all that said I'm going to be attempting to turn over a new leaf. You heard it here first...

I mail too many offers to my list with too little content. (Although, something I hear in the back of my head, even as I write this is "you don't make money if you don't promote to them". And a brotha's gotta pay the bills.) It's not to 'get the little guy' -- it's really just b/c there's so much out there... friends come out with new things all the time ... what's a whore to do?

But I know that I'm built for Social Media -- I've known it for a long time. I have way too much fun doin' characters and crackin' jokes to *not* have a better presence. I've been trying for two years to put the energy towards it -- my blog sucks, I steer clear of Facebook & Myspace, and I thought Twitter was a waste of time (okay, I just started on twitter yesterday -- maybe it *IS* -- but I've heard too many good things from ppl I trust to keep ignoring it).

FYI - partially thanks comments in your Stomper post -- I started looking harder at twitter and finally jumped in. (You'll find me *not* to be a whore there I think - click my name above or here http://twitter.com/harrisfe... - if you wanna follow me ... should be fun, funny, and maybe even profitable for you sometimes.)

Anyway - thanks again for getting the conversation goin' Rick.

Peace,

Harris

Harris Fellmans last blog post..harrisfellman: @JohnGuanzon Need 2 look like "Sal" soon (see sitestealer.com or santasal.com) -- hair's not growing fast enough & my wig is in 3 pcs!

Re: 12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

Lorraine Grula — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:51:05 -0000

It's only a paper moon hanging over a muslin tree....

Authenticity ladies and gentlemen, is what the above expressed frustration is all about. The entire world is so fake. I know, I worked in TV for eons. I was the one doing the faking! Fooled ya all!

People just want the plain truth so they can make a decision but instead they get sky tricks and manipulation. Horse-hooey is you will.

Internet marketers are some of the best marketers around.

Best marketing = the most manipulative marketing.

Nobody wants to be manipulated but we are bombarded anyway.

Duck and cover folks!

Life sucks and then you die which, although sounds quite crass and pessimistic, actually means...QUIT COMPLAINING AND GET BACK TO WORK. Reality bites. Get over it.

Just being my practical self.

I no longer waste my time reading horse-hooey!

Instead, I waste my time writing horse-hooey on Rick Butts blog.

There's a HUGE difference.

Lorraine Grulas last blog post..Revver.Com: A Video Sharing Site That Shares the Profits Too.